Old Goat

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Posts by Old Goat

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  40

  Did the GB ever receive new light without the passage of time forcing it upon them?

  by Zoos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1914 did not bring the end they were hoping for so new light shone down from above and corrected their understanding.. 1925 also led to unfulfilled expectations and so new light was bestowed.. .

  (i could go through all the dates and expectations... but i won't.).

  what if the new light about 1914 being the year that christ returned was provided before 1914?

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  Old Goat

  DD

  It was a change of view. Yes it was a flip flop, a return with slight changes to the Russell era interpretation. But it was presented as "new light."
• 
  40

  Did the GB ever receive new light without the passage of time forcing it upon them?

  by Zoos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1914 did not bring the end they were hoping for so new light shone down from above and corrected their understanding.. 1925 also led to unfulfilled expectations and so new light was bestowed.. .

  (i could go through all the dates and expectations... but i won't.).

  what if the new light about 1914 being the year that christ returned was provided before 1914?

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  Old Goat

  To answer the original question:

  Yes, in 1958 with the superior authorities doctrine and in 1964 with resurrection doctrine. Some of the 1964 changes (which seemed rational to me) were rolled back in the last few years.

  Another would be tobacco use.

  The problem with watchtower doctrinal development is that discussion and questions are discouraged to the point of intimidation.
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  95

  The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  my thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.

  this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.

  it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.

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  Old Goat

  Isn't Focus the same guy who calls a potash operation Russell's secret gold mine? And builds his "history" page out of plagiarized, sometimes inaccurate material?

  His crap reads the same. Probably is the same. Is he the same person who tried to sell a blury photocopy of Conley's photo on ebay and wrote endless crap and false claims in ebay sales descriptions? This is his victory on the internet? Don't they prescribe meds for that?
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  47

  A precious gift to all from Jehovah (channelled via Focus)

  by Focus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some souls here may feel i was a little harsh.

  if so, i am deeply sorry.

  i was abused by a handful right from the start, presumably on the basis of the avatar picture (and 2001 vintage).. when visiting dubland, i often find that others start fights with me - for whatever reason, and i provide quite a supply of them - and when it doesn't quite go the way they expected, they cry persecution.

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  Old Goat

  Wild, unfounded speculation (ie Rutherfor poisoned Russell) and abuse are what marked us as crazies back in the day. It still does. Claiming victory when there is none reflects Sadam's mentality. Good luck with that.
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  95

  The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  my thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.

  this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.

  it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.

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  Old Goat

  PhD or so? You are funny. BA, MA WSU; MA Whitman, BEd International, MEd WGU, PhD UnSA. Seems to me you're the one in need of education ... and counseling. All you are is an internet troll that seeks relevance and can't find it.
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  95

  The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  my thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.

  this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.

  it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.

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• 

  Old Goat

  Ucant,

  I sympathise. I devoted years to what I saw as The Truth. I still believe that many Witnesses are christians. I dont' see current teaching and practice as christian. But I have regrets. I regret things I said because I now see them as wrong. I spent some months trying to redirect an abusive elder, and ended up being abusive myself. I am, alas, now a cranky old man.

  But new life is new life. If you are certain the Witnesses are wrong, then don't look back. If you regret what you've done in the past, make is as right as you can and leave the rest in God's hands. If you feel you need to return to revalidate where you are, attend meetings for a while. See if you feel other than you once did.

  I think the Watchtower is wrong in vital areas. I do not see them (most of them anyway) as anything but true believers, even if they are misguided. I'm not a uinversal salvationist, but I think the book of Jonah teaches that salvation comes even to those who are misguided and child-like. If Witnesses are that, they are still within God's Grace. I know not many here think similarly. But that is how I think.
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  95

  The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  my thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.

  this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.

  it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.

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  Old Goat

  Ucant,

  sorry. it's the old-time lecturer in me. If I treated you as one of my students, I apolgize.
• 
  95

  The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  my thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.

  this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.

  it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.

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  Old Goat

  When I was a new Witness, the majority of the congregation were "anointed." They were no different than those who did not claim an anointing. A true spirit anointing does not make you better, stronger, able to leap tall buildings at a single bound. It does not make you smarter, better looking, or more faithful. In the biblical sense - and as the watchtower actually teaches it - it marks you for a different destiny. If an "anointed" brother or sister seems more knowledgeable, it's because they've probably studied the material longer than others. They do tend to be on the older side.

  To return to your illustration using Eve: She and "the serpent," whom we usually take to be Satan, received the same punishment. Eve died. Satan will. So who was the more responsible? Perhaps not every watchtower doctrine or practice we dislike is unscriptural. But even if they all were, are we free from the obligation to test what we learn? No. Not even if our parents taught it to us.

  The Protestant reformation returned the idea of personal responsibility to the fore. The Latin phrase sola scriptura, meaning “by scripture alone,” set the standard for faith. It is a biblical standard. The Watchtower gives lip service to that, but takes it away by crafting a governing system not found in the New Testament. (Enough of this Greek Scriptures nonsense!) We are not responsible for what they've done. We are responsible for believing what they say.

  Arguments that focus on someone else's blame are like a child rejecting discipline by saying, "But YOU ..." It doesn't matter what someone else does. It matters what we've done. This is what the Bible teaches. We see that in Joshua’s “as for me and my household.”
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  95

  The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  my thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.

  this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.

  it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.

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• 

  Old Goat

  I was baptized in 1948. Yes, that makes me old. I lived through much of this history. I don't hold anyone responsible for my belief but myself. Nor should I. If we were taught wrongly, it was still up to us to decide to believe. I have always been what one of my friends calls a "sekptical believer." When I was an active Witness (You may have heard me at District Conventions), I questioned things. It made me unpopular sometimes. In the approach to 1975, The Watchtower Society told me to stop writing to them about it. Eventually I reached a tipping point. I do not blame the person who studied with me. He's been dead for decades. I don't blame Franz or Knorr, both of whom I knew at least somewhat personally. The fault is my own.

  I doubt one can move on until they take responsibility for themselves.

  Do I still have unresolved issues. Yes, I do. But, while I reject Watchtower philosophy and practice. it was my choise to enter and certainly my choice to leave. I didn't fornicate, smoke, steal, have sex with my neighbor's donkey or childen. I stopped believing things that seem very unscriptural and I rejected the self-serving, self-entitled view of elders (I was one at the time) and governing body members. In fairness, I don't know any of the current GB members except on the basis of a brief meeting with two of them. All those I knew personally are very, very dead. And they weren't all like that. John Barr (and his wife too) was a Christian in every sense - Approachable, loving, kind, concerned. That can't be said about others of them. But, none of them persuaded me to believe. I did that myself.

  If our critical faculties lapse, it's not someone else's fault. It's our own.
• 
  95

  The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  my thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.

  this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.

  it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  If we believe the Bible, then we must say she was "deceived." We either call God unrighteous for punishing her or we assume that she bore personal responsibility at least for not taking the issue up with God whose voice walked the Garden of Eden. Ultimately we are responsible for ourselves.